tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post4072141957270505836..comments2024-03-22T08:47:33.246-04:00Comments on Alas, not me: "We will burn like heathen kings before ever a ship sailed hither from the West." (RK 5.iv.825)Thomas Hillmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11645380693097266173noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-79741019201281527322020-12-04T11:19:26.572-05:002020-12-04T11:19:26.572-05:00The meaning of the term 'Heathen' stems fr...The meaning of the term 'Heathen' stems from what should be 'Someone of the Heath', just as 'Pagan' means 'Someone of the Enclosure' (Village or Town). The reference about 'Heathen Kings' coming under the sway of the Dark Powers I would think is telling us that MOST OF the ancient Heathen Kings were influenced by these powers - just like in todays world MOST OF the people are also corrupted by the very same powers, but at the end of the Fourth Age. Then these corrupted kings rose against the Gods, a remnant of the Numenoreans left Numenor, and these split into two parts - Gondor and Rohan. The Rightful King (Aragorn) was from this line that split away. These Heathen Kings were the 'Sons of God' and they feature in many Indo-European Mythologies, but not all of them came under the sway of the growing darkness, just as today not everyone has come under the sway of the Dark Powers. Wulfingahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09677624595873274726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-1217670767711241842016-03-07T16:49:00.344-05:002016-03-07T16:49:00.344-05:00Thank you, Massimiliano,Thank you, Massimiliano,Tom Hillmanhttp://alasnotme.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-933165262689958922016-03-05T10:50:11.958-05:002016-03-05T10:50:11.958-05:00The "Then Ar-Pharazôn the King turned back to...The "Then Ar-Pharazôn the King turned back to the worship of the Dark, and of Melkor the Lord thereof" is taken nearly verbatim from "The Drowning of Anadune" with the name Mulkhêr in in place of Melkor. In "The Drowning of Anadune", first paragraph, it is explicitly stated that: <br /><br />"At the appointed hour Men were born into the world, and they were called the Eru-hin, the children of God; but they came in a time of war and shadow, and they fell swiftly under the domination of Mulkhêr, and they served him. And he now came forth and appeared as a Great King and as a god; and his rule was evil, and his worship unclean, and Men were estranged from Eru and from his servants." <br /><br />And in the subsequent paragraph, the repentance of the Edain is told, and how they helped overthrowing the servants of Mulkhêr. <br />This part was removed from the "Akallabêth", but it confirms the interpretation you gave to the "turned back" verb.Massimiliano Izzonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-86328589292776984792016-02-12T03:02:57.412-05:002016-02-12T03:02:57.412-05:00I'm sure you are right to connect King Sheave ...I'm sure you are right to connect King Sheave and the conversion of the heathens (fn 4) - I'm looking forward to that other day.<br /><br />Your cogent ruminations on heathenism might be supplemented from the unfinished 'Tal-Elmar' (in 'Peoples of Middle-earth). The story tells of the arrival of the Númenoreans on Middle-earth, before the downfall of Númenor, and from the point of view of the 'Dark People' of the Second Age. Here then we have a description of what is essentially (although I think not explicitly named as such) a heathen culture. <br /><br />For example: between the village and the sea is a wood, 'dark and unwholesome', with stagnant waters with many snakes and few birds, and in the wood dwell dark spirits that hate men, or so run the tales of the people.<br /><br />Incidentally, the ethnographic history alluded to here is interesting in itself. It becomes clear that the 'Dark People' are in the Neolithic, wearing only loin cloths and cloaks of fur. Yet the are not indigenous - although a new fair folk is in the process of intruding from the East, they themselves have driven out an older 'wild folk' who now live 'in the caves of the mountains'.Simon Cookhttp://yemachine.com/noreply@blogger.com