tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post3447831784229591720..comments2024-03-22T08:47:33.246-04:00Comments on Alas, not me: 'She died' -- The Choice of Lúthien and the Destiny of the Elves (FR 1.xi.191-93)Thomas Hillmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11645380693097266173noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-82371195551504094002017-04-30T23:09:32.712-04:002017-04-30T23:09:32.712-04:00How different would have the story been had Andret...How different would have the story been had Andreth and Aegnor formed a union? Or would this have truly not been permitted at that time. We consider Luthien an Elf, yet she was half a Maia. Was this the deciding factor? Or was it truly free will and the courage of both of them?Laura Berkholtzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13672070627657192754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-46614456984126551302017-04-17T16:43:29.682-04:002017-04-17T16:43:29.682-04:00Thank you, Troels. Better late to the party than n...Thank you, Troels. Better late to the party than never. I have the 'Return of the Ring' volumes and am eager to look at your work there. You are quite right of course about Jackson. He certainly undermines the moral stature of more than men. True, too, that 'The Hobbit' is never fully integrated, but I think that is more a matter of tone and the odd talking purse and dog walking upright. I am glad my post was able to energize you. Thomas Hillmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11645380693097266173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-88203910693427403582017-04-16T18:16:03.649-04:002017-04-16T18:16:03.649-04:00Coming a bit late to the party, I'm afraid, bu...Coming a bit late to the party, I'm afraid, but I've been catching up for my transactions over Easter, and was caught up with this post, where I kept wanting to engage with your analysis ... really brilliant, thank you!<br /><br />A few points that I simply <i>have</i> to make ... :) <br /><br />I think there are some resonances with the paper I gave at ‘The Return of the Ring’ where I analyse Tolkien's use of fairy-stories (and folk-tales) within <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>, using the vocabulary he established in his essay <i>On Fairy-stories</i>. With respect to Aragorn's song, I focus particularly on it's effect of consolation (though there is certainly also an element of escape to that). <br /><br /><br />When you speak about the Jackson team choosing “to undermine the moral stature of nearly every mortal human in the story”, I wanted to point out that this did not only apply to the mortal humans, but also to the immortals – Elrond is merely the most obvious example, but I would argue that the same applies to many other, including Arwen and Galadriel. One can also argue that it applies also to Saruman, who become merely a weak-willed servant of Mordor. <br /><br /><br />Regarding the introduction of Lúthien and Beren into ‘the second Hobbit’ as the defining moment that put <i>The Lord of the Rings</i> firmly within the same sub-creation as the Silmarillion mythology, I quite agree, though I do not agree that this was ever really achieved for <i>The Hobbit</i>, which remains a poor misfit (my own approach is to completely ignore <i>The Hobbit</i> as a source of Middle-earth lore – I only count that which is confirmed elsewhere, so the swords, while magical Elvish swords are, in my opinion, <i>not</i> from Gondolin, nor do troll-purses speak etc. etc.). <br /><br /><br />With respect to your conclusion, I think the real promise lies not in Lúthien and Arwen as such, nor in Beren and Aragorn, but in their <i>unions</i> (and in the union of Idril and Tuor). If there is anything messianic in this, it is in the three unions of Eldar and Edain – particularly with the two First Age unions, I think it is fair to say that they brought as much hope for the Eldar as for the Edain (and the same can, to some extent, be said of the last: the main hope that the Elves have in a world that is being taken over by Men is to be able to leave Middle-earth quietly and in peace at a time of their own choosing).<br /><br /><br />So thank you very much for this! One important parameter for me is my energy to engage with an analysis after reading it, and on that metric you've scored full marks ;-)Troelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07515711722551393026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-58429308811739442662017-03-06T19:46:45.853-05:002017-03-06T19:46:45.853-05:00Thanks, Shawn. You're right. Viggo Mortensen d...Thanks, Shawn. You're right. Viggo Mortensen does an excellent job with the Aragorn they gave him. It's just not Aragorn. Except for mining the films for images -- because Cate Blanchett -- I don't pay much attention to them. I don't want what happens in the films confusing my memory of what happens in the books. Still I can't deny that for this essay, the films came in handy to help me see and illustrate what I think is going on in the texts.<br /><br />As for Tauriel, I really don't have a problem with her per se. It's the romance, which begins in teen-movie ribaldry and ends in utter schlock and bad dialogue. It also seems to completely undermine the whole purpose of creating a strong female character who could stand up to and with the males. Thomas Hillmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11645380693097266173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7548876397286393746.post-22700959812576601632017-03-06T18:08:14.379-05:002017-03-06T18:08:14.379-05:00Brilliant essay, Tom. Movie-Aragorn's "Sh...Brilliant essay, Tom. Movie-Aragorn's "She died" really is a perfect representation of all that's wrong with movie-Aragorn: obsessed with his own personal guilt and lack of confidence, with no apparent recognition or respect for the incredible legacy that he (and Arwen) preserve. It also reveals the error at the heart of the Kili-Tauriel romance: the utterly modern obsession with the "star-crossed lovers" aspect -- lovers dying for their love -- ignoring the world-changing aspect of the select few who are allowed to cross that gulf.<br /><br />The more time I spend with the texts and away from the films, the more movie-Aragorn frustrates me. It's a shame, because I really like Viggo Mortensen's performance, all issues with the character notwithstanding.Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04728500226938929498noreply@blogger.com